Anytime I get to speak with Sue Gordon, I consider it a privilege. She ran the U.S. intelligence community day-to-day during the first Trump administration — effectively overseeing the CIA, NSA, and more. She’s got the heart of a patriot and the wit of a poet.
In our conversation this week, Sue said something that stopped me. We were talking about Donald Trump’s recent comments comparing himself to a dictator, and she described those remarks as a “test mouse” (like the lab mice used in scientific experiments). Re-read a couple of Trump’s comments and decide for yourself:
“They say: 'We don’t need him. Freedom, freedom, he’s a dictator.' …A lot of people are saying maybe we like a dictator."
“The line is that I’m a dictator, but I stop crime…So a lot of people say, ‘You know, if that’s the case, I’d rather have a dictator…Most people say … if he stops crime, he can be whatever he wants.”
Sue makes an unsettling but important insight.
Trump often road tests his most outrageous instincts. He throws out provocative ideas to see how the public responds. Too often these asides get brushed off as “jokes” or figures of speech.
But how many times do we have to learn to take Trump seriously and literally?
So what does it mean if his dictator comments are a “test mouse”? It means he’s probing. He’s trying to normalize something he’s doing by spotlighting it. And it may signal he’s preparing to go much, much further.
Watch our full conversation now above.
(P.S. Thank you
, , , , , and many others for tuning into the conversation!)
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