LISTEN: Former Trump intel chief -- “Our systems are breaking.”

Today I hosted a special Substack LIVE conversation with two essential voices in our democracy:

Sue Gordon

, former Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence under Donald Trump, and

Jonathan Capehart

, Pulitzer-winning journalist and MSNBC host.

One spent her career in the shadows protecting America’s secrets — and the other in the spotlight exposing uncomfortable truths. But as Sue notes, intelligence and journalism are “sister” professions. And in this moment, they’re saying the same thing: We’re in serious trouble. Here’s what we covered:

• The misuse of intelligence agencies under Trump;

• Reckless new conspiracy theories about the 2016 election;

• How essential government services are being turned into tools of revenge;

• Purges of public servants who don’t say what the President wants;

• …and the risk of irreversible danger if Americans tune out.

Watch/listen to the full episode above, and please share with your networks.

(P.S. Thank you

Dianne Mize

,

Noble Blend

,

MB Matthews, she/her

,

Wendy E

,

Judith Evans

, and many others for tuning in!)